necter mix

[snookerdude]

i recently ran out of commercial mix and decided to start making my own. i used the 4 to 1 recipe but decided to add a teaspoon of clover honey to the mix. my one remaining female rt has started landing on the perch to feed and stays a long time. she is the only hummer i've seen in the last 3 weeks. there had been a juvie male that i thought was a female but noticed before he left that a few feathers were beginning to turn red on his throat.

i have never read of anyone putting honey in the mix.....any input on that subject???

[Steve Backes]

Do not add honey to the sugar solution. This is a quote from Sheri Williams' (Peterson's Field Guide to Hummingbirds author) SABO FAQ page:

Q: Wouldn't honey be more natural to use than white sugar?

A: No! Honey is both unnatural and unhealthy for hummingbirds. Honey is made from the nectar of flowers seldom visited by hummingbirds. This nectar is chemically different from that of hummingbird flowers and is further changed by the bees. Honey also contains spores which have caused fatal infections in hummingbirds.

The nectar produced by hummingbird flowers is a relatively pure solution of sugars and water. White sugar, also known as sucrose, is not only a natural food for hummingbirds but also the sugar they prefer over all others in "taste tests."

[Joe M]

I'll chime in with an additional caution that honey is never mentioned as a suitable sugar substitute for hummingbirds.

Flower nectar has been processed by bees which changes the chemical makeup of sucrose found in flower nectar to 50% fructose/48% glucose, the other 2% is various enzymes as a result.

Although its still a form of sugar it has been changed and is digested differently by humans and hummingbirds.

I would prefer that those that feed hummingbirds use a sugar form that most closely replicates what hummers find in the wild.

Why experiment with other forms of sugar (fructose) without knowing the long term effect, possibly negative, when it's not necessary?

1/4, granulated cane sugar/water solution, is 99.9% the same as hummers find when feeding from flowering plants.

Please stick with what we know works and enjoy the honey yourself on your table. That also includes artificial sweetener's!

Joe M.
Lakeland

[douglase]

WATER
And then we get to another issue which is the water you use for your nectar. Water is indeed a large issue as we humans feed hummers. Some people use city water, some use via a water softener/ conditioner/ reverse osmosis and some receive their water from wells.

To boil or not to boil?

Often I am asked “Do I need to boil my water for my hummingbird feeders”?

City water has been treated for human consumption, taking out harmful bacteria, etc. It does contain trace elements, as necessary minerals, that humans and hummingbirds need daily. Boiling city water will eliminate chorines, fluorides and any potentially harmful bacteria/ microbes that hummers don't need. Boiling water and eliminating bacteria will retard nectar fermentation by at least an additional 24 hours.

Water softeners/ Reverse osmosis
The common active ingredient in water softeners is sodium (salt) which may add too many minerals and salts to the water. With reverse osmosis and ionization the water can become overly acidic.

Well Water
In well water you may find agricultural chemicals and contaminant run-off may be present in rural and suburban aquifers.
Any boiled water is the preferred water to use. Do not use distilled as it takes out too many naturally occurring minerals

Filtered Waters
You can also use filtered water from a Brita or the refrigerator water filter.

Important if boiling water: Allow the water to cool before adding the nectar---boiling water with nectar will alter the 4:1 water:nectar ratio via evaporation. Also, remember that in hot and arid climates the liquid in the feeder will start evaporating immediately and in a matter of a few days it can change from 4:1 to 3:1 to 2:1 and will be refused by the hummers. Thus, it is best to clean the feeder and replace the nectar every two-three days.

Lead in Water

Some say:
“The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warn against using hot tap water for drinking or cooking, because hot water can pick up lead from plumbing and fixtures. Unlike sucrose, lead isn't any healthier for hummingbirds than it is for humans. Whether you use this product or plain sugar, use water heated on the stovetop, in an electric kettle, or in a microwave oven, not from the hot-water tap”.

The New York Times Claim: Never Drink Hot Water from the Tap
The claim has the ring of a myth. But environmental scientists say it is real.
The reason is that hot water dissolves contaminants more quickly than cold water, and many pipes in homes contain lead that can leach into water. And lead can damage the brain and nervous system, especially in young children.

Lead is rarely found in source water, but can enter it through corroded plumbing. The Environmental Protection Agency says that older homes are more likely to have lead pipes and fixtures, but that even newer plumbing advertised as “lead-free” can still contain as much as 8 percent lead. A study published in The Journal of Environmental Health in 2002 found that tap water represented 14 to 20 percent of total lead exposure.

Scientists emphasize that the risk is small. But to minimize it, the E.P.A. says cold tap water should always be used for preparing baby formula, cooking and drinking. It also warns that boiling water does not remove lead but can actually increase its concentration.

More information is at www2.epa.gov/lead/protect-your-family#water or [phone] (LEAD).

I agree with the above and add:

If lead is present in any system it will always be present as you are turning on-and-off the hot water and it will always be present in the closed plumbing system.

Boiling does not remove lead but it disinfects the water by removing any bacteria, however, as you boil longer it will concentrate any heavy metals, minerals or other pollutants in it. This will happen because the water will evaporate leaving the same pollutants with less water.

Boiling tap water will cause any bicarbonates to be boiled off as carbon dioxide as well as any chlorine and other volatile compounds. You can get an analysis of the impurities present in your tap water by asking your water supplier. Most cites provides same in each monthly bill. The analysis will show the level of harmless (to drink) impurities such as sulphates, carbonates, sodium, calcium, magnesium etc., chlorine added by them to kill any bugs and hopefully a number of zeros against toxic ions such as lead and mercury, pesticide residues, bacteria and other items.

If you are feeding hummers please be cognizant of what goes into their feeder.

[Joe M]

Douglase,

I'm sure you took the time to post a litany of reasons to find a substitute for the water we and hummingbirds use as an envionmental activist. I'm not even sure if you have ever seen a hummingbird or have any interest other than using this forum as a sounding board for your environmental stance. So be it!

"Also, remember that in hot and arid climates the liquid in the feeder will start evaporating immediately and in a matter of a few days it can change from 4:1 to 3:1 to 2:1 and will be refused by the hummers. Thus, it is best to clean the feeder and replace the nectar every two-three days."

Evaporation from feeders is virtually non-existent since its in a closed envionment. If you can provide some documentation I might take your comment under consideration. As far as I know we add hot water to our sugar (not nectar) to facilitate dissolving the sugar, and let it cool before putting it out for the hummers. Knowledgeable hummer folks don't boil away their solution in a pot from a 4:1 to a 3 or 2:1 solution. By the way I doubt a hummer will refuse a 3:1 or 2:1 solution.

But again I doubt you really koow a twit about hummingbirds. If you care to comment please send me a private massage.......

Sorry folks but Douglase "touched a nerve"!

[douglase]

Hi Joe,
Sorry ‘I touched a nerve’.

Thank you for your vitriolic diatribe but all you need to do is look at your hummingbird feeder to realize 80% is water. And it is a huge source of hydration for the birds. My post is to alert people to be aware of their water. Nothing more nothing less. If it tastes bad and you won’t drink it then why offer to your hummers?

Here in Tucson it is very arid most of the year and many months of 90s/ 100s degrees and the liquid in the feeders does evaporate. It is also consumed by hummingbirds, Verdin, Orioles, Finches, Gila woodpeckers and nectar eating bats.

Yes, knowledgeable people know how to feed their hummingbirds but in this huge USA many well-meaning but ill-informed people believe they need to dissolve the sugar via boiling water; and others think more concentration is sweeter (it is not) and will please the birds (it does not).

There is some concern that increasing the ratio beyond 3:1 may cause dehydration and kidney damage in hummingbirds due to the lower concentration of water in the solution. Google “Hummingbird Kidney Damage” and you will find much anecdotal references; look up Sheri Williamson's site or for more scientific resources query McWhorter and Carlos Martinez del Rio; or Bradley H Bakken who have done much research on the topic.

OH! I maintain thirteen (13) feeders on my two acre property in the foothills of the Catalina Mountains, a tad north of Tucson. We are also well planted with native flower species that attract hummingbirds. I have encouraged my adjacent neighbors to also maintain multiple feeders and plantings. In my fourteen years here I have had nine species visit and many residents. Right now: Costa's, Broad-billed, Anna's (nesting) and a pesky Rufous. But soon the Magnificent, and many Black-chinned will be joining them. At a slightly higher elevation the White-eared, Calliope, and Violet-crowned are residents but sometimes visit our feeders. As do local banders. And video production companies when they need videos of hummingbirds and flowers and feeders, etc. 

But Joe, you do surmise correctly as you state "But again I doubt you really koow a twit about hummingbirds". Hummm, my annual trips to Costa Rica, Colombia or Mindo, Ecuador has indeed taught me that I know very little about the 330+ species of hummingbirds. But they are sure fun to watch.

Pax,
Douglas

[Joe M]

Hi Douglas, You have made your case! Please accept my apologies for the tone of my comment.
Lead Problems: Simply stated I believe that here in the US we have reduced the incidence of lead poisoning by awareness of the problem and restricting our exposure to materials that contain lead. CDC data seems to indicate a 20-40 fold reduction in the past 35 years. No doubt the incidence should be nil but we are at levels now that in my mind seem to indicate that further reductions may be slight. The 0.1-0.2% incident rate in FL, AZ and most states, currently, are far different than the 5-10% rate in the early 90's. The fact is that water quality in the US is very good, excellent in most areas, with few exceptions.

Sugar Solution Evaporation: Simply stated the solution will go "bad" due to mold or fungal growth long before the evaporation effect will affect the relative concentration of sugar in the solution. Outdoor evaportion rates in FL and AZ are essentially identical for "open" containers, Lakes and Pools, 0.2 inch per day. Hummingbird feeders are closed containers, essentially, so the evaporation rate is about 0.1 inch per day. Unlikely that this will appreciably change the sugar concentration in a 3-4 day period which is about the time frame that the solution ought to be changed in the summer months,

Dehydration in Hummingbirds: I'm not sure this has ever been documented in Hummingbirds but the lack of the ability to consume enough nectar to maintain body weight has anecdotally been made by Dr. McWhorter due to overhydration and the reason I normally use a 4:1 solution in the summer and a 3:1 ratio during cold snaps in the winter (overnight temps in the 30's)
.
The following is extracted from: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/04/020402075641.htm
What's more, where other researchers have emphasized that lack of water constrains hummingbird behavior and habitat selection, McWhorter and his colleagues emphasize a novel aspect of water-energy interaction: water overbundance in food. Well suited as hummingbird kidneys are to excrete large volumes of dilute urine, they have their limits.
"We speculate that the rate at which hummingbird kidneys can process water may impose limits to energy intake," he reported in 1999 in the Journal of Experimental Biology.
In other words, not lack of water, but too much water limits how many calories the birds can consume. For example, when hummingbirds are challenged by cold temperatures, they can't consume enough energy to stay warm and maintain weight. They lose weight, McWhorter found.

BTW: I envy you for being able to get down to Central Am. and see species we don't see north of the border. Spent several years in S. Tx and was able to log 13 Species between the two states.

Best Wishes,